{"id":38877,"date":"2021-05-05T21:48:54","date_gmt":"2021-05-05T21:48:54","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.johnpaulcaponigro.com\/blog\/?page_id=38877"},"modified":"2023-08-29T13:10:07","modified_gmt":"2023-08-29T18:10:07","slug":"richard-misrach","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/www.johnpaulcaponigro.com\/blog\/photographer-convos\/richard-misrach\/","title":{"rendered":"Richard Misrach"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>[vc_row row_type=&#8221;row&#8221; type=&#8221;full_width&#8221; text_align=&#8221;left&#8221; video=&#8221;&#8221; css_animation=&#8221;&#8221;][vc_column offset=&#8221;vc_col-lg-offset-2 vc_col-lg-8&#8243;][vc_column_text]<\/p>\n<div id=\"content\" class=\"col-sm-8 col-sm-push-4\">\n<h2><span style=\"color: #ffffff;\"><img loading=\"lazy\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-35867\" src=\"https:\/\/www.johnpaulcaponigro.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/02\/010_Misrach.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"750\" height=\"593\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.johnpaulcaponigro.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/02\/010_Misrach.jpg 425w, https:\/\/www.johnpaulcaponigro.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/02\/010_Misrach-300x237.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 750px) 100vw, 750px\" \/>.<\/span><\/h2>\n<h2 style=\"text-align: center;\">Richard Misrach<\/h2>\n<p><span style=\"color: #ffffff;\">.<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.johnpaulcaponigro.com\/blog\/15451\/12-great-photographs-by-richard-misrach\/\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><strong>View 12 Great Photographs by Richard Misrach.<\/strong><\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.johnpaulcaponigro.com\/blog\/15465\/13-quotes-by-photographer-richard-misrach\/\"><strong><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Read selected quotes.<\/span><\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.johnpaulcaponigro.com\/blog\/15447\/richard-misrach-4-videos\/\"><strong><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Watch the video.<\/span><\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<div id=\"content\" class=\"col-sm-8 col-sm-push-4\">\n<p>Richard Misrach, a native Californian, has spent most of his career photographing the American desert and is considered one of this century\u2019s most internationally acclaimed photographers. His works are represented in more than fifty major museum collections around the world. Selections from his groundbreaking Desert Cantos sereis have appeared in three previous books, including Desert Cantos, which received the 1988 Infinity Award from the International Center for Photography; Bravo 20; The Bombing of the American West, which was awarded the 1991 PEN Center West Award for a nonfiction book; Violent Legacies: Three Cantos; and Crimes and Splendors.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<div class=\"blueborderbottom\">\n<hr \/>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"detailpagetext\">\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>John Paul Caponigro <\/strong>There was one thing that you said that I found very poetic. You said, when we were talking about photographing at night, &#8220;It just lead me to it. I learned that there\u2019s a new language of working photographically at night I just fell in love with the language.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>The notion of a language of night is beautiful. Tell me more about it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Robert Misrach<\/strong> Well thanks, thanks very much. I can only go back to when I worked at night, earlier in my career, very early. I found it really liberating just to be able to work at night because there hadn\u2019t been that much done in the history of photography. You know Brassai had worked at night, and there\u2019s been individual photographs done at night, but there\u2019s just so many other things photographed so thoroughly, it was hard to get away from that. It\u2019s a trap in a way. Early on, working at night, there were so many things I didn\u2019t know. Mistakes I made would lead to understanding new things. I guess the language evolved out of that. And coming back now, many of the things I\u2019m doing at night are really borrowed from that early work, but framed differently.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> It struck me that photographing the desert and photographing the night have similarities, both seem like spaces that when first approached can seem empty and yet when you spend time with them you realize how full they are.<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> Right, that\u2019s very good.<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> I was working exclusively at night and it\u2019s only recently that I\u2019ve come back to working at night again. But, as part of the Cantos, the way I\u2019m approaching it now is conceptually much different.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> How so?<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> What\u2019s different now is that I\u2019ve become interested, in the last couple Cantos, with language and the way it shapes the way we see things. I\u2019m working on a book right now. There\u2019s a series of skies where I\u2019ll pick a place on a map, like a Rand McNally map, and go to that place and photograph the sky. What\u2019s in the photograph is not clouds, there\u2019s no horizon line. There\u2019s nothing in there. It\u2019s really atmosphere, light. My idea was that the photographs become a rorschachs. What gives it its conceptual meaning is the name of the place. Each of the places is keyed by where I took it.<\/p>\n<p>The night skies is a follow up on that in what I call the series Heavenly Bodies. What I\u2019m implying is the way that the night skies, the stars and the planets, have been named, is actually very Eurocentric. It\u2019s based on Arabic language and Greek naming and mythology. All these different things that have been imposed on the American Southwest. Even though on one hand it\u2019s sort of innocent, just a classification system, a naming system, it actually has a lot of bearing on how we understand ideas, sort of imperialist ideas about how one culture can lay its system over another \u2013 again relatively innocently but actually having a huge impact. Along with the skies which are based on place names, the Heavenly Bodies are based on constellation, star and planet names. What I\u2019m doing is still looks very much like night photographs of the sky, it\u2019s pretty straight forward in that sense. And yet, now with foregrounding the names and the language we use to describe those, at least the way Eurocentric culture does, it adds another element to the Cantos.<\/p>\n<p>What I have done with the Desert Cantos is that each has a different strategy or approach to making images. Sometimes they\u2019re very traditional. Others give you different ways to think about the overall picture, which for me has been the desert for these twenty years.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> I\u2019m looking at Crimes and Splendors, it looks like there were eighteen Cantos at the time of publication. (In numerical order \u2013 The Terrain, The Event I, The Flood, The Fires, The War (Bravo 20), the Pit, Desert Seas, The Event II, The Secret, The Test Site, The Playboys, Clouds (Non-Equivalents), The Inhabitants, The Visitors, The Salt Flats, The Paintings, Deserts, Skies, Las Vegas and several Prologues) Are there any other themes that you\u2019ve found since the publication of this book?<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> Well at the time of the book there were 18 plus what I call the metaprologue. Since then there have been a number of new Cantos; the Heavenly Bodies for instance is the 21st Canto. And I\u2019ve been doing the 22nd Canto \u2013 Night Clouds. The 19th Canto is Las Vegas. The 19th and 20th I\u2019m still working on and I haven\u2019t published any of those yet. The 21st and 22nd I\u2019ve actually been publishing recently and will be doing a book on just those.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> Your work seems multiperspectival, it\u2019s almost as if a cubist got a hold of the theme rather the form. And I wondered if you felt that has a scattering influence.<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> I think that\u2019s a really, really good analogy. One of the things that was really influential early on was Ezra Pound\u2019s Cantos, one poem he worked on for 50 years. It\u2019s epic. I had a great deal of difficulty understanding it. One of the problems was you\u2019d be reading along in English and he would move to a Chinese ideogram or French&#8211;he actually used seven different languages in a given poem. And for somebody who\u2019s not fluent in different languages it has the impact of rupturing your way of understanding something. It was very purposeful on his part to put these obstacles of language in there so that you become conscious of the whole system. You don\u2019t get a neat narrative or a neat poem. Once you run into these obstacles of language you have to stop and think about other things. So, for me, in putting The Playboys or The Paintings or these language things in with these more conventional landscapes they inform each other. It does scatter, it does rupture, the way cubist paintings would. Each gives you a different way to approach something and sheds light on everything else.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> Right. In a sense, less authoritarian and perhaps a little more true to our experience of life, which these days is none too cohesive.<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> Our experience with knowledge, the way we know things, is not that neat. It doesn\u2019t fit into a grand narrative, the way we\u2019ve been taught to read. Things just don\u2019t work that way any more.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> As in western culture, there has been a division, arbitrarily between art and science. You mentioned that you had received criticism from both the artistic or aesthetic community and the documentary or journalistic community (not that we can divide those simply). I wonder what both camps have said. Interestingly you seem to be placed squarely with one foot in each. What are their concerns?<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> Right. At the risk of oversimplifying it, with the dead animal pit, the idea is that I would be aestheticizing this horrific thing, making beautiful objects out of something terrible. Also I took political or poetic license with historical texts, as proof that I was not interested in making just beautiful pictures of dead corpses. Fredrick Sommer did some things that were incredible studies of death, which is something in and of itself. That just wasn\u2019t what I was trying to do. I was definitely trying to make a political statement with that work. I felt it had to do with nuclear testing. I took a historical text of an event that happened in the 1950\u2019s and paired it with 1980\u2019s images, trying to make a point that this could be happening today. I took political license there, I broke the rules of documentary photography. So I upset the documentarians there. People who were into aesthetics thought the work was not aesthetically interesting. I basically collapsed, in my own mind, the distinction between documents, which to me are very bogus. The kinds of things we see in Life magazine, just don\u2019t work any more. These fine art books that come out that are documents of heroin users starving to death, it feels dishonest and disingenuous. I think making photographs like that has gotten more problematized, it\u2019s gotten more complicated now. We know too much. We can\u2019t do those things. In my own way I think it broke down. Where the document begins and where the aesthetic object begins is really hard to tell. That\u2019s fairly obvious in the work; there doesn\u2019t seem to be an illusion of a straight document. What\u2019s gotten complicated is the ways we use that kind of photography in our culture and society these days.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> As you broke down the conventions of pictorial language it seems you\u2019ve also been trying to expose the conventions of photographic language.<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> I have to say, it\u2019s not so much pointing out how other people have done it. That would be a pretty cheap shot. What I was trying to do was explore it for myself. The problems rest very much in my own work. I\u2019ve been struggling with this all along. My very first project was a documentary of street people in Berkeley \u2013 Dorothea Lange or Bruce Davidson type documentary \u2013 when I was 22 years old. That\u2019s when I first realized there was a major discrepancy between my good intentions and how the images actually functioned in the world. I had a coffee table book (Telegraph 3 am) of poor people on the street, with a show at ICP. I was very young and it raised all those problems.<\/p>\n<p>It makes somebody go in the museum in the afternoon after a really nice lunch, feel guilty for a little bit, and maybe then send twenty bucks to a cause. But does it really change the world? What really is the out come of all that? It tends to elevate photographers to heroic status and I don\u2019t know that it helps anybody. It\u2019s easy to cast it that way. The reason I\u2019m bringing it up is because I\u2019m struggling with it myself.<\/p>\n<p>It feels exploitive. It feels careerist. I\u2019m thinking mostly of work of people who are starving, famines, that kind of stuff. You go see it on a museum wall, these big beautiful crafted prints, and it just feels wrong. It feels like one of those patterns we got into without really questioning it, from Life magazine days. In that particular historical moment, that context, it made sense. It was a way of seeing the world, but I think it\u2019s becoming a pattern of representing other cultures \u2013 bringing back trophies of other peoples\u2019 suffering. Somebody called it victim photography. My work definitely borders on the edge there and maybe goes over. I don\u2019t know. It\u2019s a hard one.<\/p>\n<p>In a way I\u2019ve been struggling to get out of that hole ever since, and I don\u2019t think I have. But I think the work is an honest struggle with the problems. Any criticisms I would make could be turned right back on the things I\u2019ve done. It\u2019s a very difficult thing once you start trying to show what would be considered documents or show what our world is made up of. It\u2019s very complicated to start representing things like that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> The sky work is extraordinarily formal. It\u2019s ironic in the sense that it is a document, based on its photographic nature, and yet at other times it almost seems like a document of nothing, another empty space. There\u2019s probably something more at work here than post-modern irony.<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> Oh yeah. There\u2019s a lot. I was reading a lot about the way the camera influences the way we see. The camera is an invention of the 15th century. Renaissance one point perspective, the horizon line, all those elements were a convention that we have come to just use. It\u2019s been very effective and very exciting and powerful. I take a tool, an instrument for recording three dimensional perspective and point it at something two dimensional and see what happens. In other words can you make a picture that didn\u2019t have those things? Again it freed me up to incorporate language in a stronger sense to play with the way meaning is made in a photograph. But I also found it to be incredibly beautiful. There is irony in the sense that you know photography is the tool for realism and yet what I\u2019ve got is extreme abstraction. They\u2019re very precisely made in terms of the actual color. In other words I don\u2019t fool around with color filters to distort the color. I try to get a so called accurate color. They bring up notions of field painting and yet they\u2019re literal<\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s nothing to latch onto, no clouds, no horizon line, no subject matter so to speak, it\u2019s just atmosphere and light. The title does become very important. And what I include in the title is one, the name of the place, but two I also engrave inside the frame the actual minute and date the image was made. I don\u2019t think of it as irony so much, but it points at the idea that the camera is always conceived of as this thing that catches an instant moment and yet you look at the sky and it\u2019s a metaphor for eternity, it\u2019s timeless. So you have those two ideas pitted against each other; they\u2019re forced to collide against one another. It becomes a diary, it\u2019s a dysfunctional diary. When you keep a diary you talk about specific moments and the details of a particular day. Well these things are so detailless to turn them into a diary turns the notion of a diary on its head.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> Is this play with convention more than conceit? Self-consciously pointing to convention it also points out the language that\u2019s being used and perhaps if the viewer becomes conscious of that, the content of the picture might become more transparent.<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> I couldn\u2019t have said it better myself. The thing is again it could easily be read as a shallow game. I can understand that. But for me it was a really, really important push for my own ideas about what all these images that I\u2019ve been working on for all these years are. It was a lot of soul searching, and it was my way of realizing things, and it works for me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> I sense that, one just has to say it, because, without having heard that, one could wonder.<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> No and I respect that, because the pictures are so simple, to the point of being almost vacuous. I\u2019m so aware of that, and that was the challenge, and I went with that. There was something I was really pushing for my own growth.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> Pair that with photographing others\u2019 paintings, that kind of appropriation probably doesn\u2019t take on it\u2019s full meaning until it\u2019s in context with the other work.<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> Absolutely. Any given single Canto has no bearing whatsoever without the rest of the Cantos. That\u2019s clearly why I structured it that way from the beginning. It\u2019s the same as an image, you take one image and as soon as you start pairing it with other images it takes on much bigger meaning. We\u2019ve all been doing that. What I\u2019m trying to do is take each of the Cantos and do the same thing by building on it with other Cantos. If you take the pictures of the paintings out of context they become something completely different and it\u2019s not something I was interested in. But I do know that that work is very difficult for people. It doesn\u2019t look like quote &#8220;my work&#8221; unquote.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> I\u2019m curious, with the critical apparatus at work, and the necessity of artists writing their own texts, we\u2019ve had to talk quite a lot to fully reveal things, do you ever wonder what room is left for the non-linguistic concerns?<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> I\u2019m sorry say that again?<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> I\u2019m wondering, with all of this fancy talk, art history, people talking about pictures, the artist being forced to speak about work, in a sense to explain it, it used to be thought that there was a level of the image that carried the content that was beyond words.<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> Well people use to believe that but I have to say I never subscribed to that. I\u2019ve had some pretty nasty arguments where somebody says, &#8221; If you have to talk about it &#8230; Either the pictures speak for themselves or forget it.&#8221; And I\u2019ve never really subscribed to that. I think there was a period of time where we all came to agreement, we all agreed that pictures had certain meanings. But then people like Sherry Levine would come along. She\u2019d rephotograph a Weston or Evans, literally copy it as closely as possible and put it on the wall. And even though we all hated it from our certain photographic background you had to acknowledge the work changed its meaning. The same picture, in other words, the exact same picture, or what would appear to be the exact same picture, had two different meanings. I thought it was brilliant. The picture itself shifts meaning radically depending on how it\u2019s contextualized. It\u2019s as simple as that. And to me that was sort of a revelation that there\u2019s no inherent meaning in an image. And so I think it can be very important to try to use language to put a spin on your own work so to speak.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> In sense, an artist is trying to shape a statement. And as more of the statement becomes linguistic the artist has to take a hand in that process in order to take control of the statement.<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> Yes. You make a statement by not putting language with it. Just choosing not to use language is a statement.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> Exactly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> When I first started you didn\u2019t think about it that way. You looked at Ansel Adams\u2019 photographs and it seemed so clear what that meaning was. But now we revise history and reconsidered things, we know more about Adams. We took things for granted, we\u2019ve learned we can\u2019t do that today.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> Photography is inescapably wrapped up in the historical. The present always looks to the past and reshapes history to justify itself and its ends. Fascinating. But do you really think that all of the content of the picture is culturally constructed? I\u2019m wondering if you do find room for a level a content within the work that is beyond that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> I definitely think there are other levels going on. It\u2019s so incredibly complex.<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> You have to make your own ethical and moral calls along the way, sometimes in the face of general consensus. In the history of photography there\u2019s a literary model which has been used over and over again, which is the photographic essay. It\u2019s basically a literary model from Robert Frank and Walker Evans. The model that I\u2019m trying to build on is the epic model in literature which is something that is accumulating over time. I really feel like it\u2019s not really done; none of the individual Cantos is actually going to be done until they\u2019re all done, because I think then the whole thing is going to change. I\u2019m not really done but I\u2019m still putting it out into the world or sending it out there. I\u2019m learning a lot struggling with that and what that means.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> Can you find you can ever see a time when you could truly bring this to closure?<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> People ask me basically after each Canto if I think I\u2019m done or if there\u2019s much more, and I don\u2019t know. I think the potential for the desert to give up these Cantos is infinite, so what will be done will be me and not the desert. And that could happen. After each one I never know what\u2019s going to be next.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> I find the desert fascinating. It\u2019s a very fragile environment. It also points to our fragility. We\u2019re codependent with the land and when the land is so fragile we too are fragile. Many people see the desert as a place of death. When I first moved from Connecticut to New Mexico it was a pretty barren place to me. But I learned to walk out there and instinctively avoid the cactus, look for the lizards, watch the night hawks. You become accustomed to a different rhythm.<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> Yeah. When I was kid growing up the desert horrified me. I used to go skiing and we\u2019d drive through the desert. You don\u2019t want the car to break down. You don\u2019t want to stop. You don\u2019t want to get out. You don\u2019t want to do anything. Once you fall in love with it that\u2019s it. The light, the space, the solitude, the silence. Oh my god. It\u2019s a really powerful place to be. You\u2019re with yourself. But the problem is because people characterize the desert as a waste land that\u2019s why military corporations like to dump their toxics out there, because they consider a place like Nevada a &#8220;national sacrifice area.&#8221; Because it\u2019s a waste land. It\u2019s ugly. It\u2019s barren. And yet it is a remarkable place.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> It\u2019s exquisite.<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> So it may not be for every body, and maybe it takes a little special appreciation, but I think that once you do fall in love with it, that\u2019s it. It\u2019s just so incredible.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> If there\u2019s an ecological issues that\u2019s second to population control it\u2019s probably desertificaiton.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s particularly ironic that many environmental advocates these are now trying to preserve what is there in previously forgotten territory, at the same time in other areas we are turning what was green into something less fertile.<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> Oh Yeah. The rain forests. We\u2019re out of control. It\u2019s unbelievable what we\u2019re doing. It\u2019s insane.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> How many head of cattle go on an acre out here? A hundred acres per head of cattle?<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> There\u2019s one photograph, it\u2019s called &#8220;Smoldering Cow Patties&#8221; If you go back to the fires. See all those little things? That\u2019s all cow poop. Smoldering, right there. It\u2019s covering up the sun. That\u2019s what we\u2019re doing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> Yeah and with a rising population how does an environment like that sustain us?<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> The controlled burns and the smoke that\u2019s generated by turning these fields over, it\u2019s just unbelievable what goes on all the time. Everyday they\u2019re doing that kind of stuff. Obviously if you have a bombing range, or dead animal pits, or fires, or floods, it hits you over the head. I started to think sometimes it\u2019s the conceptions that we have that are the problems and the way we do things. For the Skies, originally I had a short text in the beginning about ozone depletion and pollution. And then I realized in this historical moment you don\u2019t have to tell anyone. We all know now. There\u2019s a long history of people photographing clouds for their beauty, their formal beauty, and I just don\u2019t think you can do that any more. They\u2019re still beautiful but there\u2019s no way we can look at them instantly and see beautiful abstractions and forms of light, because of what we were just talking about. Those sunsets, those beautiful reds are coming out of the pollution. Some of the clouds out there are completely man made. It\u2019s a different time and a different way of thinking.<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> I take a lot of political license and I\u2019ve been criticized roundly for that. And that\u2019s fine. But the point is that without it then it becomes something else, it becomes a study of just the beauty of death and there\u2019s a certain amount of that there but I definitely want to put my spin on it. People will come to it and take from it what they want. but I definitely had an agenda when I did it and I hold onto the agenda as much as I can.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> And the agenda was what?<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> To politicize it. to basically put it into a political context as opposed to putting dead carcasses in peoples faces for fun.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> So it brings something that was hidden to public consciousness?<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> And it\u2019s actually worked even though people have questioned this as documentary photography. Are you playing with the rules? And I definitely am. Some people really hate that and some people think it\u2019s OK. It problematizes all documentary work. Somebody was just telling me the other day that in Timothy O\u2019Sullivan\u2019s photographs of the Civil War, that he did for Brady, he would move the corpses around to get better pictures. I didn\u2019t know that before. That kind of stuff happens all the time and the idea that documentary photograph is objective at all is just a bogus concept. But it\u2019s one of the secret myths about documentary, that it\u2019s objective. If you ever sat down and broke it down to what\u2019s really being said, all the time, then you\u2019d realize that it\u2019s completely subjective, it\u2019s a point of view. But there is a myth that documentary work, whether it\u2019s a film or a photograph, is somehow clean.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> I know. We tend to trust the machine, but not each other. I encounter this all the time when I talk to people about using digital technology. The traditional notion of a photography is that it\u2019s one instant, or one passage, as in the case of some of your photographs, of a certain amount of time on one sheet of film. That\u2019s it. You\u2019re allowed to push the contrast and the color around a little bit but don\u2019t take a tree out. If you\u2019re going to crop, crop with the edge of the camera. There are many biases about how you should use the instrument, which helps determine what it will make. The result is there are a lot of dictated notions wrapped into our cultural definition of what photography is, should be and should do. To the same degree, there are also notions of what the land is, should be, and what we can do with the it conscientiously.<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> True, true. We have all these hidden rules, after a while you just don\u2019t pay attention to them. They are just the rules we live by so it\u2019s good to bump them around a little bit.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> Many of Native Americans don\u2019t make such a separation between themselves and the land. As a result they\u2019ll use language like &#8220;I call this bread.&#8221; rather than our western &#8220;This is bread.&#8221; It\u2019s an entirely different way of relating to objects and one\u2019s environment and the establishment of ones identity, subtly encoded in language.<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> If you were an Indian, lived in Carson City or Lincoln County, you might not think it\u2019s a big deal, but on the other hand, when you start looking it\u2019s part of the big picture of what we\u2019re doing. That\u2019s why I\u2019m bringing this work in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> This is the Bonneville Salt Flats. Do you know the story of the story Donner party?<\/p>\n<p><strong>JPC<\/strong> Refresh me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>RM<\/strong> There were settlers that came out in the 1800\u2019s, came to California from back east in wagon trains. They got stuck in the Bonneville Salt Flats, which is on the Utah Nevada border. They got slowed down, caught in the mud there, delayed for a couple weeks. When they made it to the California Sierra Nevadas, winter had set in by one day and they had to resort to cannibalism, half the party died. It\u2019s one of the great settler sagas and tragedies of all time. There have been movies and books. Well the irony is at that same place today they hold the world land speed records. But the people there today don\u2019t know the irony of this whole idea of conquering speed and the west. This is the worlds fastest mobile home \u2013 96 mph. I\u2019m sure this guy didn\u2019t know that the Donner party had something that wasn\u2019t too far a field from that and had a little more trouble. Here are these two guys and it\u2019s like they just got off their horse but the horse just looks a little different.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><!--more--> <!--more--><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><a style=\"color: #0000ff;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.johnpaulcaponigro.com\/blog\/photographer-convos\/\"><strong>Read More Photographers On Photography Conversations.<\/strong><\/a><\/span><\/p>\n<p>[\/vc_column_text][\/vc_column][\/vc_row]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>[vc_row row_type=&#8221;row&#8221; type=&#8221;full_width&#8221; text_align=&#8221;left&#8221; video=&#8221;&#8221; css_animation=&#8221;&#8221;][vc_column offset=&#8221;vc_col-lg-offset-2 vc_col-lg-8&#8243;][vc_column_text] . Richard Misrach . View 12 Great Photographs by Richard Misrach. Read selected quotes. Watch the video. &nbsp; Richard Misrach, a native Californian, has spent most of his career photographing the American desert and is considered one&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"parent":38787,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"spay_email":""},"folder":[4186],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v18.8 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Richard Misrach - John Paul Caponigro<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.johnpaulcaponigro.com\/blog\/photographer-convos\/richard-misrach\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Richard Misrach - John Paul Caponigro\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"[vc_row row_type=&#8221;row&#8221; type=&#8221;full_width&#8221; text_align=&#8221;left&#8221; video=&#8221;&#8221; css_animation=&#8221;&#8221;][vc_column offset=&#8221;vc_col-lg-offset-2 vc_col-lg-8&#8243;][vc_column_text] . 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